Phoenix Custom Auto Paint Tradgedy – My Falcon Wagon
Paint Review – Phoenix Custom Paint Shop to Avoid!
You’re not looking at an artistic interpretation of the state of West Virginia, you’re looking at the terrible paint work by a company in Phoenix, Arizona called “Terrific Paint and Customs”.
When you start a project, one of the biggest things you need to decide is a budget. Because my four-door, Ford Falcon wagon was never going to be a high-dollar car, no matter what I did to it, I didn’t want to spend a fortune on paint. I did want something shiny that I could be proud of, but I knew that getting a great paint job, or “Show Quality” was not in my budget. That’s when I started looking for a “driver” quality paint shop. I found a Craigslist ad and gave the guy a call.
He sounded cool enough, knowledgeable, and his ad said, “15 year experience”. I sent a bunch of pictures of my Falcon, we talked and sent way too many texts about all the things I wanted to do and he said $1800 and it’d be done in about 3 weeks. (keep that in mind for later). I thought I’d found my custom painter!
I asked for references, and he gave them, but then like an idiot, I didn’t call. I don’t know what they would have said, but I wish I would have called. I dropped the car off at the end of June 2010 and he said it’d be done in July, like super-quick… I finally picked the car up in mid-January, almost 7 months later.
I’m not stupid enough to think I’m the first person that ever got their car back late from a painter. I know that’s tough. But am I being reasonable? Was I asking for too much? Please keep reading.
Take a look at all the pictures and you decide. Here’s the overall paint shots of the car.
I finally paid $2500 for this paint job and at least I’ll have to repaint both front fenders and pay to have someone fix the runs in the interior paint. Email me with any questions or leave a comment and I’ll get right back to you.
Is this OK to you?
Here’s why I have to repaint the fenders and most likely the whole side of the car… if not the whole car to be really happy. The only reason I stuck with Terrific Paint and Customs and Mark was because I thought he’d be the only one who COULD POSSIBLY match the paint. I was so wrong and 4 weeks after I dropped of the fenders… when he said it’d take one week… I got the mis-matched mess in the picture above. I HAD TO have him repaint the fenders because there literally was no bodywork done on the fenders before. I could see the dents in the side view mirrors towing the car home. Plus! The paint was pealing/bubbling under the clear. They were the worst part of the whole car, not counting the interior. Now I wish I would have kept them, but Mark assured me he could match it.
Here’s picture proof of why you DO NOT want to use this Phoenix custom paint shop and a summary of everything wrong with the car, and RIGHT… I’m trying to be fair here, but you decide and let me know. (Each picture has a description, please look closely)
.
What he did well:
- the color came out well – just as I had hoped and radiant in the sun!
- I got a tri-coat (base, pearl, clear) paint job and that wasn’t part of our original deal
- the custom battery box came out OK and was his idea (but see below)
- the pop-up gas cap custom installation came out mostly good
- the rust repair in the roof – it wasn’t part of our original deal
- the lip in the wheel wells are done like I asked to fit a larger tire
- the cowl vent was replaced – as part of our original deal
- the paint is mostly very smooth, lack of orange peel
Here’s the work that’s in the middle – OK, but not good:
- The drip rail. Looks good but is wavy. Would have been fine without this – it wasn’t part of our original deal, but you insisted to do it because it would look so much better
- hood and roof stripes – not exactly what I was looking for, or what we talked about but close enough
- The driver’s side rear quarter has a ton of filler – you said you’d fix that
Bad/disappointing work:
- Far and away the worst is the interior paint. How can you have me pick up my car, this late, when just about every panel in the interior has something wrong?
- LONG runs with clear over the top. How can you shoot clear and polish runs? (see picture)
- The dash is not polished near where the speedo cluster goes (see picture)
- The interior needs to be repainted or at least sanded and buffed extensively
- The battery won’t come out – the placement looks cool, but the box is to tight, you have to beat the battery back out!
- the door edges are not finished. They’re super rough, especially on the driver’s door
- Paint in general has too many flaws.
- I know I paid for driver quality paint, but there are 20-30 blemishes in the paint of all varieties
- deep scratches
- burn thru
- bubbling/lifting – the driver’s side fender needs to be re-done
- peeling off – several spots where black is showing through
- I know I paid for driver quality paint, but there are 20-30 blemishes in the paint of all varieties
- Body work
- the front fenders both look practically untouched
- Overspray on the new front suspension parts
I’d like your feedback on these. I see these as indisputable facts and have provided pictures. Do you really think it came out good? Is this, “Driver quality”
When I negotiated the price, I told Mark, “If you do a good job, I’ll write a great review.” I also said, “If you screw me, I’ll tell everyone in the world that’ll listen.” That’s what I’m doing now. You’re welcome.
So finally, I DO NOT recommend this Phoenix Arizona custom paint shop: Terrific Paint and Customs. So watch out for Mark in his Craigslist ad, you can search for his phone number: 602-312-8346 or he usually claims he can do, “Custom, Semi Custom, Collision, Metal Flake, Candy, Pearl, Metallic, Graphics. ” It’s funny, he has a picture of my car in his ad now!
I was unhappy to find another unhappy customer: Here’s the link: http://www.talkphoenix.com/showthread.php?t=222879
Sorry for such a bummer post, but this is the only thing I can do now. I’m looking for a solution to my paint problems now. Any Phoenix Custom paint shop want to help me? I will give a GLOWING, honest review if it works out well!
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Bummer man, I have not found a painter that was not a flake, I think it is the fumes. Most of them have no idea how long a job will take. That is why my rod was in primer, I didn/t want to paint it after painting my truck and I new I would be disappointed if I sent it out. Good luck man
Bummer. Unfortunately it may be a case of “you get what you pay for.” $2500 for tri-coat and interior plus mods? Still, they shouldn’t have taken the job if they were going to half-ass it.
Definitely would mark that in the “fail” category.
Wow! Thanks for the info. My falcon wagon will never *ever* see that guy’s paint booth!
whoa! I thought I was having problems with my painter, but I’m glad I didn’t use this guy. I’ll let my car friends know about him. Sorry to hear this!
Man that sucks. Beautiful choice of color, terrible execution. The thing that sucks is there’s body guys and then there’s painters. Looks to me like you got a subpar painter who just didn’t even try the body work bit. I’d have done a better job and I’m not a body guy :-(
I would have left the car there until it was done right. If you paid the guy you may be screwed. Now what do you do? He may just close up shop and change his company name and be back in business as usual. Sorry man!
Arizona is full of talentless unskilled hacks whether they are mechanics or tattoo artists or air conditioning guys… there is no regulation by the state or city government here. The place is full of startup companies run by people with no business or technical skill …they stay in business for a few months close when there reputation catches up to them and then reopen using another name. I have lived here five years and have found 1 good parts place ( Luke auto in the west valley) and no mechanics I can trust. I have had a local dealer ( Miller Toyota) do an oil change on my Wife’s car..they returned it to her with no oil in it. When I discovered and documented the lack of oil they tried to tell me “their special oil” is clear and you can’t see it.I also discovered that they had broken the oil cap and the dipstick F*%*in idiots is all I can say
I am a custom painter by trade and I have NEVER treated a customer that way! You totally got screwed and from someone that automatically gets a bad rap because of hacks like this guy in my industry I am sorry!
I can tell you in all honesty that for $2500 dollars in my shop you would have received a beautiful paint job in a timely manner…not an unrealistic three week quote, more like six weeks. You can see examples at http://www.lindoncollisioncenter.com
For $2500 dollars or “driver quality” you get your body straightened out and primed. we do not prime and block multiple times for this price however…you get your choice of paint whether it’s single stage, base/ clear, or tri stage…and a tri stage paint job does not cost any more that a base/clear job…fyi (if he told you that, he lied)
After the paint work is done we do a full cut and polish and you get a lifetime warrantee on workmanship.
Again, I am sorry that this @s&hole straight up screwed you and I ask you to not blame the whole industry…I know that there are A LOT of cheats and thiefs and liars in this industry but if you do some research you can find a good shop…Does Arizona have a better business bureau? That might be a good place to log a complaint against this guy or find a decent shop…and in the future, if your looking for a good honest shop and you are willing to come up here to Utah I will treat you fair and honest and you will receive what you wanted in the first place…a quality paint job, at a fair price in a timely manner…
Andy~
Yes you received a very poor job.1 no one should quote a project from photos. 2 depending on the color and product 2500 rarely covers the product costs. 3 to include interior at a different color for 2500 would be to good to be true. On some of your shots I can see sanding marks under the paint, which means he can not even prep properly. There are shops in the valley that can do a wonderful job for a very resonable price though I would think that it will be higher than 2500
i worked for mark shortly after your car was shipped and sadly saw the repaint on your fenders and the black specks in the fenders and dents i took major pride in the work i did on a tbird there for one month then never got paid. i am in the middle of a lost wages claim with him and trying to get the news involved. if you’d like to be apart of the news story let me know. i thought mark was a good guy as well but he isn’t and he makes all custom shops look bad
It is a shame, I have a 1972 Olds Cutlass Supreme that I had done here in PA. Back in 2001 when I started the resto I hand stripped the original paint and a friend of mine mediablasted the car, This helped with the paint costs,but is as you had a limited budget. The problem is most professional restoration shops do a proper job but it is expensive. But the problem is regular body shop generally also does insurance repairs and dealership details thus cutting into the time to be spent on your car. I say this because this is what I experienced, as you did. A promise of completion time and proper work. Luckily I lived near the shop and visited at least three times a week to see the work progress, when work was not done there was always an excuse. Luckily he had a a good body guy and detailer. But there still were sanding blemishes under the paint and bubbles from contaminates under the paint. I’m lucky though since they are not in real visible locations like yours.The paint was the original Viking blue color base with a blue pearl clearcoat. Granted I spent more like 4 g’s and it is a show car. Oh and he closed up his shop 2 weeks after my car was done, so no formulas for touchup if ever needed. I agree with past post that you should launch a complaint with BBB and see if some way you can recoupe your lose and then either find a reputable shop or a franchise body repair company like Maaco if you have them out west. Sorry you got taken by this guy, and it is unfortunate that there are predators like him. But at least next time you are faced with a project like this you have much more knowledge to do your homework with!
I am also a custom painter (www.eastvalleycustompaint.com). You really do get what you pay for! 1800 dollars for an inside-out paint job is a price out of the ’70s. Quality paint materials cost me 1000-1500 bucks for a typical job (a gallon of red paint is 760 dollars!!!). Add in 150 hrs of labor at 40/hr and you have an idea what it takes to get a car painted. Stripping, bodywork, jambs and interior work run the labor even higher. The nicer you want it, the longer it takes, the longer it takes, the more it costs. I’ll paint a car for a twelve pack, but I don’t want to hear any sobbing when its done.
I don’t know Keith and don’t care to. I love how another painter will come along and give me the old, “You get what you pay for.” Too many paint fumes, I guess? When seller sets a price and buyer and seller agrees on it, I guess it’s up to the buyer to say, “OH NO! You can’t do it for that price, I better give you more… Lot’s more!” Whatever… Everyone’s a custom painter Keith, good luck with your business, you’ll need it. If you can blame the buyer in this situation, you’re one heck of a business man.
Sorry to offend, Craig. The “sobbing” comment was not aimed at you. Just trying to give folks more of an idea on what goes into the process. Keith.
Agreed Keith. While it is true, and I seem to learn the hard way every time… you get what you pay for. This topic is still just a little soar with me, along with my arms, since I re-sanded the entire car this past weekend to repaint it.
Let everyone else learn from my experience, please. The painting is hard, exhausting work. It takes a long time and the materials are expensive, just like Keith got done saying. If a painter offers to do a GREAT job for very cheap. Just walk away.
Read this too… some great advice about how to find a painter: http://www.autobody101.com/content/articles/confessions-of-a-body-shop-owner/
I don’t know about Arizona but in Georgia i’d have his ass in small claims court. And because he personally quoted you the price you sue him not the buisness. This keeps him from just filing for bankruptcy and changing the name. You have more than enough evidence that you should get all of you money back. It doesn’t matter wether the quote was low or not. He offered you a product for a price. If you have to repaint the whole car then he has not delivered the product. I too have been a victim of bait and switch paint jobs from shops. They bait you with a low price to get you in and get your car torn apart and then jack the price up. Always get the quote in writing. A hand shake isn’t worth crap. A written quote is a contract that will hold up in court and I don’t care if it costs them twice that legally they have to produce.
hi there really sorry to hear this story thats a pure disgrace, am a custom painter in uk i can tell you now pride would not let me send a job out that crappy, i know a lot of people are banging on about price but we agree price before hand based on whats expected and if in the end it cost me so be it, in this profession your only as good as last motor, you can have 100 great jobs but 1 will ruin your rep.
Also 15 years exp we all prob hit a car with a coat to many clear but runs like that did he just toss a bucket of clear over it
sorry to hear hope you get it sorted.
Did you really expect to get a quality job for 2500.00 from a Craigslist ad? Proper materials would have cost that much alone. You should have know when he quoted from a picture that the result would be poor. You are equally to blame for not doing your homework .
Thanks Mark, that was incredibly helpful and insightful advice. As the story said, I expected him to do only what he said he’d do.
I’ve lived in AZ for 20 years. It’s not much different than where I came from (Chicago) or anyplace else, I imagine. I’ve had people try to part me from my money before, and it’s not confined to AZ.
The problem for pikesan is probably getting services from a Cragslist ad. I know it’s tempting, but a guy without a building to pay rent on doesn’t have a lot to lose if you’re not happy with him.
Thanks for posting about this character so the rest of us know to steer clear. A reputable guy would have asked to have the car back so he could do it right.
If I can keep one person from making the mistake I did, this embarrassment will be worth it.
You get what you paid for I Have over 6-7 grand into my paint at this point and clear coat alone was 2 grand. My kid can paint a mean mailbox does not mean I am going to let him paint my car.
C5chick, do you think that comment was helpful given that’s what lots of other people have said? The mailbox comment is unique tho… thanks I feel better. OH, and good for you on what you’ve spent on your paint… I don’t care.
What’s the deal with these comments? When your painter son get’s a boo-boo, do you pour Tabasco on it? Why not offer some constructive advice, rather than what’s already been said? Do you know how to find a reasonably priced painter or do you just throw money at it hope for the best? Expensive painters can suck too.
If it has not been too long, two years on most states, take him to small claims court. You have a strong case against this bozo.
It is frustrating that it is so difficult to find talented or even competent people these days…the same is true for products. It seems that everything is done/made as cheaply as possible.
As consumers, we vote with our dollars and by posting online.
Thank you,
I will never use this schmuck for any work on my vehicles….
Heres alittle math from a fume snorting custom painter. I’m currently 380 hours into a ’56 corvette restoration (paint and body only) and the car is not even close to paint. When I finish the car (I’m guessing early to mid winter), my labor bill will be 30 to 40 thousand dollars. Thats my pay over about an 8 month period. I’m willing to bet its on par with a grocery store manager or a teacher, and less than a police officer or firefighter is making. An average paint job runs 8 to 10 grand at my shop. Thats about 175 hours of labor and around 2 grand in materials (a gallon of red paint is right at $800 dollars… thats just paint. Throw in primers, reducers, catalysts and clearcoat… again, 2 grand). Granted, those materials can be purchased cheaper but are of a lesser quality and you get to have your car painted again in a couple of years. I encourage my customers to come to my shop to watch the process and see whats envolved. Those cool car shows you watch on tv from your big chair, where show quality work is pumped out in 5 days? Its television. Entertainment. Flip over to pro wrestling if you want more truth.
I guess it’s the same world over. We have plenty of shonky guys down here in Australia. We call them cowboys. Some guy who painted the back of his shed once and now thinks he can do anything!!
Here a good gob will be $10k plus, and even more if you want it in gloss black. Most awesome paint jobs I have seen, have been done by the owner giving it a go. I guess when it’s your own you put everything in to it. You started with the right thing in assessing this guy from the start, but I see 2 things you did wrong: 1. you didn’t call the references, and 2. the job was too cheap and that should be a warning bell right there. Sorry to hear you got stung. Better luck with the next one.
Keith Ferland, you said that your paint cost $760 per gallon? Are you out of your mind? I just looked at an Epoxy Auto paint, chip resistant, including Gardner and thinner for $189 per gallon. I just bought a 1964 Pontiac Grand Prix and will be looking for someone to provide me with a decent drive every day paint job. Sorry Keith, I will not be looking to you for your $80,000 type paint jobs.
Hey Keith: Your price for paint has gone up from $760.00 to $800.00 per gallon. There must be real gold in the paint that you say you are using. Must be inflation. If you read what piksan said, he was not looking for a $8,000 to $10,000 SHOW quality paint job. He wanted a Driven daily decent paint job. Boy you sure can beat your own drum.
This just in. Sherwin Williams red paint… 950.00 a gallon.